DC TALK DEFENDED - Answered!

- This page is an answer to the hatchet job done to our article DC Talk Examined by a C-rocker! The C-Rocker's article is printed in blue and my responses are in teal, parts in black from our original article, 1st and 2nd responses.

Since the publication of the article "DC Talk Examined" I have heard numerous excuses for why it is "OK" for a Christian to rock.  The public accusations leveled by this c-rocker deserve an answer, and because it is typical of the e-mails I have received.  Here it goes:

Here is perhaps the most interesting of my pages on Christian rock apologetics. I came across an entire article slamming one Christian group, and my response to it invoked a response from its author, which is more than I can say for any of the other authors I have written.

"Slamming?!"  Is it "slamming" when I question their ungodly behavior in the light of scripture? Or is that plain and simple discernment. Please read on.

With each page I create I first e-mail what I have to say to its author and/or webmaster, then upload it to my own site. It's been months since my first page, and I've never received a response from an author until this one. Mr. Beardsley replied promptly but unfortunately no more cordially than the tone of the article that follows, followed by our dialogue.

But how did this C-rocker come to me? "I trust you would have no objections to my posting a response to your article. I will of course confront you with it first as per the Lord's instruction and give you an opportunity to change your page, if you find it necessary." He came with the intent to confront and defend his position no more "cordial" than I. I answered in a manner of here are the facts of the events that occurred and compared them to scriptures. Because this person sees this as lacking in being cordial there is nothing for me to apologize nor is it offered.

As Mr. Beardsley will say, "Christians should have nothing to hide," and that the "truth never fears examination"... therefore despite his lack of response on this matter I trust he would have no objections to my posting this. As per the Lord's instruction I have gone to him personally and individually (via e-mail), and by his saying "goodbye" below, I see that as his saying he will "refuse to listen to me," and so here I am presenting it to the church on my web site. Parts have been deleted from this one in the interest of brevity, and as usual all my remarks are in blue. [Bold Emphasis mine]

The "goodbye" Mr. C-rocker, was to tell you there is nothing further to discuss. I offered Biblical proof of what I was saying, but you did not receive it. I am not part of your local church! My web site tells you where I am a member ---your use of Matthew 18 is completely unbiblical (as if churches that openly endorse such behavior would ever consider adding us to their membership besides). I refer readers to this web page for a further discussion on this matter and much more on sound doctrine and how Christians are to judge:

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Introduction/


For over six years I have wondered if a band would ever again be as big as Stryper was. It now seems that that time has come, with the arrival of DC Talk.

You defend groups like Stryper?! A group that mimics the secular group KISS???!!! Simply amazing!  And your site includes a who's who list in c-rock and cross over groups and singers. (listed later in this response) For more evidence of the hearts of those groups I refer readers to the following web pages:

http://rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/rockm/satanic.htm Christian" Rock Music Christian or Satanic?

http://www.av1611.org/crock.html Christian Rock - Blessing or Blasphemy? - by Terry Watkins

Now, having released four explicitly Christian albums, gaining some mainstream recognition and filling arenas coast to coast, just as Stryper did, DC Talk is also falling under attack by certain Christians, whose personal preferences are getting in the way of letting God work through a particular style of music. This persecution I believe was a key factor in the unfortunate demise of Stryper in the early 1990's. One can only pray that the same thing will not happen again, and that folks like Mr. Beardsley will find something more productive to do with their time than slam fellow Christians because they don't like their music style or its decibel level.

Who said I was not fond of rock? I learned through reading my Bible that it was wrong and THAT IS WHY I LEFT IT!!! You seem to enjoy putting words in people's mouths! [There is reason for my expressed emotion here our articles and others showing facts of events are twisted and perverted in order to discredit us which is the definition often applied to of "slamming" and "attacking." - This is far different from what I have done. Now to put it in perspective, I have been attacked by you and you have attacked other Christians like Terry Watkins and Jeff Godwin publicly on your website.  You are condemning these men and others like them for standing on what SCRIPTURES teach us clearly --- as you promote riotous and wanton behavior. Mr. C-rocker if you believe everything you say here and your site you are spiritually blind!

I have been a fan of DC Talk ever since I heard "Spinnin' Round" in 1991, and it has been a thrill to see what they have become. Already with many Dove and Grammy Awards and over a million records sold, they released Jesus Freak in late 1995. JF remained true to their form in that every song carried an explicit Christian message. Even with little if any mainstream radio or video airplay, the album debuted at #16 on the Billboard Top 200. (That's the Billboard Top 200, not just the Christian chart, where they had spent many months on top). With this success brought recognition and distribution from a large secular label, and this has in turn brought some mainstream radio chart success in recent months.

Explicit Christian message? Nonsense!  I don't know if the DC Talk website carries their lyrics still but feel free to look at this freak of a record album dubbed as Christian music! Their message is vague or abstract at best. Look at my critique of the lyrics of the song.  Fame and awards doesn't mean their so-called Christian message is true to scripture.Jesus Freak linked here.

None of us can imagine what the temptation these brothers must be going through, to compromise their lyrics for a chance at even more mainstream recognition and fame.

The temptation to crossover to secular is what you are talking about, because the world wants them not for their Christian testimony, but their rock music period. What does the Bible have to say about being friends with the world? Because they certainly are! Just look at DC Talk's appearance, their attire, their music, their lyrics and behavior! Compromise is the key!  True Christians need only worry about recognition from their Heavenly Father, not from man.  It's obvious which is ore important to them. What's the difference between them and the world? If there is a clear difference it is not evident!

How nice it would be if artists like DC Talk could focus all their attention on spreading the Gospel of Christ, rather than having to defend themselves against the likes of these folks.

What Gospel? Where is it? How nice it would be if c-rockers would take off their blinders and take responsibility for feeding the frenzy of rebellious teens as they think they are doing God a service by confusing our kids and encouraging them to rebel against their parents!!!

I never had the pleasure of seeing a Stryper show, but like all accounts I have heard, at a DC Talk show (which I have seen many many times), while full of energy, the presence of God is so sweet and so evident. Unfortunately, not everyone goes to a DC Talk show for fun, fellowship, praise, or awesome musicianship...

I refer you to my article DC Talk examined for what this show I witnessed with my wife was really like! Energy? Yes there was plenty! God's presence?! Absolutely NOT!  Were rock musicians present? Yes, with that I cannot argue, they are rock musicians.

Actually, the group did not form in DC, and the statement about the record label is quite presumptuous.

Mr. C-rocker didn't even ask for my source of this quote. It was provided to our local newspaper by the promotion of the DC Talk band! Contact the Rapid City Journal and their sources. I even double checked this accusation, and the quote from the Journal is correct.  The only difference is my article included the band members first names in the quote questioned!!! So I've corrected the quote as follows:

"DC Talk was formed in 1989 by [Toby] McKeehan and [Michael] Tait in Washington, D.C. DC Talk was a reference to the area, but their record label suggested they counter "vulgar stuff" out there by saying "DC" stood for "decent Christian" talk." 

Now are you saying this yourself, or agreeing with what was said about them in the press? Regardless, your saying that their message is strong conflicts with you saying that it's "hard to tell if the band members are Christian by the lyrics..."

Some of DC Talk's musical role models are the Beatles, David Bowie, The Police, U2. [Ed. Note: these are ALL secular bands]

[My note: These are their musical role models.]

Thank you for proving my point! Another C-rock group you laud "Jars of Clay" made a similar statement.  Remember; we're to strive to be more Christ like, which means, we model ourselves after Jesus not after secular rock bands.  (This is detailed more as you read on.)

"Jars of Clay, which recently appeared on "The Late Show with David Letterman," is a trio that names Jimi Hendrix and The Beatles as their inspirations." Of course the national media and others reporting this are all conspiring against them to destroy their Christian reputation! NOT!

And as we said in the original article:
II Corinthians 6:14 reminds us:

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"

"I think Jesus would have liked our music." "I think he would have appreciated the message, the stand we're taking." Kevin Smith of DC Talk (1)

THE MESSAGE AND STAND OF DC TALK -- OUR FIRST HAND ACCOUNT

"And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, [There is] a noise of war in the camp. And he said, [It is] not the voice of [them that] shout for mastery, neither [is it] the voice of [them that] cry for being overcome: [but] the noise of [them that] sing do I hear. And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.." (Exodus 32:17 -19)

I'm [having trouble] figuring out [the relevancy] of [this passage] here.

I am not surprised, so I'll spell it out: 
1. "A noise of war," "the noise of [them that] sing" LOUD MUSIC.
2. Golden Calf,
3. Revelry and riotous behavior.
- We witnessed something VERY much like this at the DC Talk concert.

The evening of May 16, 1996 my wife, Kathy, and I went to the Rapid City Civic Center to see for ourselves why DC Talk is so popular. We did not anticipate the decibel level at which the band played, but thankfully, the Lord provided earplugs through a friend working security. We knew the music would be loud, but not the earsplitting level we experienced that evening. We spotted eighteen speakers over head on each side -36 speakers in all.

The tickets we were provided placed us in row one to one side of the stage. From our seats we could see at least 18-20 support staff as well as 5 police officers for security. We both noticed a surprisingly large number of young children at the concert ranging in age from approximately 5 years to preteen. I guess most parents felt safe taking or letting their young children go to a "Christian" concert.

[More background information and slams against opening act Audio Adrenaline deleted].

This writer likes using the word "slam" since my wife and I dare to object to these groups on Biblical principles. NOT because we don't like a particular style!!!

During the intermission I looked around to see what kind of items were for sale. Did they have books sharing their testimony? Or anything which would identify them with Christ? I didn't find any. Instead, all I could see on the tables were T-Shirts promoting the bands, pendants, key-rings and pictures of the band at what I thought were exorbitant prices. Anyone going to this concert paid $18.50 just to get in, so I guess it should not have been a surprise.

Touche. But this seems odd coming from someone who along with his wife was given complimentary tickets.

This snide remark comes with no acknowledgement of the WHY we went to the concert in the first place that is explained in the first paragraph of the article. I even remarked of the promoter, "Their hospitality in providing two tickets is appreciated." We did not lie to the promoters on why we were requesting the tickets. Obviously the c-rocker just doesn't like the point of truth, the materialism in c-rock is at epidemic proportions!

THE EYE AND THE FREAK

The intermission ended and the stage was completely rearranged. A very elaborate lighting array encompassed the band and stage. The lights dimmed, the heavy bass started and the crowd was jumping again. DC Talk also added a video screen behind them and as they played various pictures were shown with some songs. Other frames had abstract colors similar to what you might see in an old '60s movie portraying those weird acid rock groups!

In the video for the song Mind's Eye some of the pictures went from abstract to bizarre. The video flashed pictures of a human eye then switching to the eye of an eagle or a hawk, it was hard to say, from soaring above scenery of the outdoors, through clouds and this sequence repeated a few times. Then it switched to that of flying into a lightning storm which really was weird, a spot on the cloud would light up and the bolt of lightning followed, all very fast and sometimes several at once. Then it switched back to the human eye flashing back and forth with that hawk or eagle eye. Just the name of the song I believe gave it more than a New Age theme, whether the band knows that or not!

A New Age theme? Give them a break! "Mind's Eye" is a brilliant song about a Christian's faith journey! Why give such credit to the New Age?

Mr. C-rocker I guess you can make whatever you want of this yourself but as with "Jesus Freak" there is no gospel message to the song "Mind's Eye" for all the listener knows it could be Buddha, or the so-called Rev. Moon they are talking about or just someone talking to a spirit guide! That is a fact, the song is so generic any faith can derive meaning from it! Here's a critique of "Mind's Eye" that shows all the New Age influence!

Numerous strobe lights which were used during certain parts of DC Talk's session along with a combination of the other effects. An interesting thing we noticed was that every time DC Talk played a secular song such as the Beatles' Help and the Doobie Brothers' Jesus is Just Alright With Me, the crowd got louder and more excited. DC Talk also used, Jimi Hendrix's, Purple Haze [Editor note: a drug reference], and the sound of the mouthpiece instrument made famous by the Rock singer, Peter Frampton. Each time either band did anything secular the amount of body surfing increased as well as other behavior unbecoming of Christians. That should suggest that the majority of the crowd was there for the "rock" music and the Christian aspect had nothing to do with it.

This is utterly ridiculous. First of all, how did the band 'do something secular?'

THEY PLAYED SECULAR ROCK SONGS, THAT'S HOW! Are you really that blind? Do we conform to the world to reach it?

As for the crowd getting "louder and more excited," this would be very difficult for you to defend, I have seen many many DC Talk shows, as well as own a lot of concert footage video, the intensity level is high throughout. I'm having trouble seeing how you could say that when DC Talk played "Help," the crowd got louder and more excited." That is the very first song in their set! I would certainly hope that the a crowd at any show would get "louder and more excited" during the performance as during the intermission! As for "Jesus Is Just Alright," as it is performed by DC Talk it is really stretching it to say that it is the Doobie Brothers.' Mr. Watkins was confused on this issue as well, and this was dealt with on my page responding to him. Just where did they use "Purple Haze?" As for the mouthpiece that you give Peter Frampton the credit for, this has been used by countless musicians, Christian included.

Defense of the loud music getting louder is not necessary because it happened.  The crowd obviously recognized the secular songs and responded in kind.   Also, the bands don't necessarily follow the same routine every where they go.   Anyone going to these concerts can see and hear for themselves, though I do not advise it, that the music is used to manipulate the crowd into a frenzy ---constantly shifting gears you can say. Mr. C-rocker, why must I defend this statement when it is so very blatantly obvious that it is true?! And I used to listen to groups like the Doobie's and DC Talk DID copy the Doobie's song that is a fact!

Finally, how is it up to you to say that 'body surfing' and the like is 'unbecoming of Christians?'

If Mr. c-rocker can honestly say that his hormones aren't aroused when a woman is being passed over his head, whether he touches her or not, than he can place himself on a pretty high pedestal and pat himself on his back.  It is not up to me or you but God. And He says:

1 Corinthians 7:1
"Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: [It is] good for a man not to touch a woman."
 (This verse covers participating in heathen practices, how is this body-surfing not one? A closer examination of this verse alone shows it covers this sort of behavior and many more illicit acts, it is a shame any Christian would downplay how dangerous body-surfing and the like is.)

Let's not forget ---the members from both bands encouraged the behavior and took part in it! Two of the DC Talk band members jumped off stage into the crowd and the third band member jumped off sound equipment that sat on the stage which made his jump higher. Appearing to be about five feet above the raised hands of the crowd from where we were sitting.

Let's not forget -- you have not at all established that there is something inherently wrong or unchristian with doing this.

Oh yes I most certainly did.  Tell me, what is it about "riotous behavior" do you not understand? I just gave another verse which you are encouraging people to violate! And this behavior IS demonstrated as "inherently wrong" later in our article as well.  I guess you didn't read it before responding to it.

A STRANGE GOSPEL PRESENTATION

Through the DC Talk session which ran about one hour and forty minutes, the band members spoke of God in general terms only. I noticed how often the band leader, Smith, kept saying "God is coming again." Perhaps I'm not used to hearing it put that way, but I tell people, "Jesus is coming again!" I found Smith's statements to be confusing and almost misleading at times.

Well first of all, you obviously went into the arena looking for things for which to condemn DC Talk.

Again you are judging and condemning me and putting words in my mouth.  This Mr. C-rocker is untrue, plus one would not have to try hard to find the problems we found.

(You say later that you do not believe that rock music is of God). Second, unless the show you attended happened to be way different than all the ones I've ever attended (which I highly doubt), the band member you should be referring to is Toby McKeehan. To get even the name of the band's leader wrong suggests how ill-qualified you are to cyber-preach against them.

This is a typical tactic to detract from the point I am making. Did I say I know each band member? If I confused a couple of the members you now consider me "ill-qualified" to preach against them, how stupid!

Smith did say, there's a God who forgives us when we stumble, which led into one song I could half way understand.

That's very nice. I might add though, that the majority of fans in attendance know each of the songs by heart.

We saw no indication that half or one quarter of the fans attending knew the lyrics of the songs by heart...they knew the music maybe.

DC Talk also quoted from a Bible translation I am unfamiliar with. Smith said, "...anyone who dislikes his fellowman is not in the light..." meaning, he is not right with God. The Bible says in 1 John 2:9-11: (bold emphasis mine)

"He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes." (bold emphasis mine)

"Disliking someone" versus "hating" someone is one example of changing what the Bible says.

The stand for Christ at the end of the concert given by Smith started with "People will let you down," and "I'm not here to preach". While some of what was said was good, "people letting you down whereas Jesus Christ won't," his message ended with the words "Any kind of pressure is wrong, I don't want to put any pressure on anyone" and "Just ask someone walking around you"-in reference to finding out more about "this Jesus."

Obviously, since you had no response to the above you have no problem with whatever translation is used by your c-rock idols nor is sound doctrine a concern. Or was your silence here an agreement that they are teaching falsely!?

During a break in the middle of the concert, the band members took time to share with the audience. That should have been the perfect time to give a salvation message, knowing the crowd would stick around for the music following. Unfortunately, the opportunity was completely missed. It was truly heartbreaking to see so many left hanging when there was opportunity to plant seeds of salvation.

I can guarantee that many, many seeds are planted every night DC Talk comes to town.

Seeds of corruption perhaps. Because of the lack of a gospel message in the music or speaking it was not the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus commanded us to preach the gospel:

Matthew 28:19-20 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen."

DC Talk's concert LACKED a gospel message!

A MESSAGE OF COMPROMISE

Smith said, referring to Jesus, "I think He would appreciate the message, the stand we're taking." My question is: What stand did he take? What message did he give the people other than you know how to compromise with the world; using their music, speaking in adoration of the people who wrote the secular music, making your role models those who are of the secular world? Some of these role models you chose are anti-Christian and are of the world and not of God.

First of all, to whom are you saying rock music belongs? The world? Terry Watkins et al took a similar stance and were dealt with in short order, on some of my other pages, the links of which I have given you. Second, I have never seen DC Talk proclaim any adoration from the stage of any secular musician (nor have you backed this up), much less making role models out of any of them.

Again it seems you c-rockers can justify whatever you want. You are ignoring warnings from scripture spoken by Godly men and women who have a passion for the Bible as you have a passion for your c-rock. I have read Watkin's, Godwin's and the material from many others and you just whitewash over the revealed sins of c-rock. You got your answer from them on their pages and on mine. You come to our site with YOUR self-righteous attitude along with a friend to try and nit-pick different points we have made, yet YOU have not disproved what we have said.  Instead you and those like you argue about the "sound," the "beat," some like you even comparing the wild behavior to innocent children's games like 'hide-n-seek'. Your arguments defending c-rock are not only ridiculous but are completely unbiblical and blasphemous! These c-rockers by modeling their secular role models have become like them! Is it any wonder that many c-rockers even sound much like their secular counterparts!? Jeff Godwin has it right, they've got a mark of Satan that identifies them!!!

A lesson to be learned!--- When you compromise with the world, you will end up doing things their way, not God's. Labeling something "Christian" doesn't make so. As a Christian, how can you stand apart from the world when you blend in so well? How are they going to know?

OK, but this is not relevant here, as playing a certain style of music, rock included, is not a compromise with the world.

The music is NOT neutral! Here is a link to an article by Terry Watkins http://www.av1611.org/neutral.html and another which is linked at my site talking about the difference between good and bad music: http://wayoflife.org/~dcloud/fbns/differencebetween.htm

The style DOES say something about where a person's heart is and the bad fruit of c-rock is evident for anyone who examines it in light of scripture. Here for the readers is a link to Terry Watkin's homepage and the article that exposes the numerous bad fruit of c-rock much like what I have witnessed for myself. http://www.av1611.org/crock.html and here's another article on the DC Talk "Freak" show by Jeff Godwin http://www.av1611.org/crock/dcfreak1.html You forget I used to love to listen to rock music ---and I can openly admit and reveal that the "soul" of Rock & Roll is evil!  The rock singers don't try to hide it and neither do their lyrics.  The rock music has always been designed to corrupt people from Biblical principles of morality --its roots are of old alright! In Satan! Or do you not believe that Satan has music of his own? The rock style provokes a response of its listeners just as much as slow soothing music would help someone relax.

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Romans 12:1-2)

We believe DC Talk and their music are prime examples of compromising these verses in the Christian realm. When I put this together with other statements by Smith in an interview with our local paper,

"None of the three band members is a member of an organized Christian denomination." Smith, "We follow the person of Jesus Christ."

Amen! I can say the same thing. Are you saying there's a problem here?

Because of their lack of any gospel message, yes there is a problem! Who are these guys accountable to? If its a gospel preaching, Bible believing church ANY pastor should exhort these guys at the very least to preach the gospel. Plus, so very many people claim to be a "Christian" yet they claim no church affiliation and say their testimony is something "personal" and don't share it.   --- Of that number many are unreached and unsaved.

The Bible teaches:

1 Peter 3:15
"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

2 Timothy 4:2
"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine."

DC Talk was right, people let you down. Their "sermon," was the biggest let down and most irresponsible one I have ever heard.

Sorry you were let down. I myself have come away very encouraged from every DC Talk show I have ever seen (which is a lot).

Biblical encouragement, no way. Emotional hype perhaps.

BODYSURFING, MOSHING AND HEADBANGING FOR JESUS?

"Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen..." (Jeremiah 10:2 )

"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord..." (II Corinthians 6:17)

Yes! The "Bodysurfing, Moshing and Headbanging" we witnessed on the video was largely the reason we saw the need to research and write this article. No one we talked to has ever heard of this behavior in the name of Christianity. In fact, DC Talk says in their promotional video, "we want to get a good mosh pit going and some head-banging." As to the bodysurfing, well the band participates! Does this sort of behavior align to scripture? Consider the following scriptures:

"Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to [fulfil] the lusts [thereof]." (Romans 13:13-14)

I don't see head-banging or crowd surfing falling under any of these categories.

This clearly demonstrates your lack of Biblical knowledge and common sense of right and wrong. C-rockers are teaching to conform to the world by their music, lyrics and their wild behavior. Plus the verse quoted above draws this together (1 Cor 7:1).

Are Christian parents so na´ve that they do not see the "fleshly" appeal to their teenagers? What about the riotous atmosphere? They passed people across the top of a crowd with their hands, on their front and back, boy and girl alike!!!

How about the extremely loud volume? It was earsplitting in a literal sense, I listened through one song, and my ears were ringing. Are not our bodies considered a temple for the Holy Spirit? Why do Christians want to subject their eardrums to abuse?

Sorry to hear about your ears... but I myself have been to literally hundreds of gigs like this, including DC Talk many times, sans ear protection, and have never had a problem with my hearing. I for one happen to like it loud, and have seen some of the loudest bands in Christian music. When I feel the need to wear ear protection, then I will. However, this has only happened twice in my life, and both of those times were at secular concerts, in an outdoor venue. (And 99% of the concerts I attend are Christian).

Hearing damage is most often cumulative, I hope you don't wait too long to find out how much hearing loss you've acquired so far.

Why is it necessary to promote this kind of behavior, much less be a part of it? Do we agree with the worldly philosophy of "safe sex," and say, "Well they're going to do it anyway?"

Why not? This kind of behavior is not analogous to premarital sex, which the Bible specifically warns against.

Numerous parents I know USED the analogy "Well they're going to do it anyway" to justify their kids attending this and other concerts like it (Code of Ethics, News Boys, Jars of Clay) This is the SAME argument used to justify other sins and they're paying the price with uncontrollable kids.  I have absolutely NO DOUBTS that the behavior we witnessed does lead our youth to committing greater sins than just body surfing someone's body across their hands! Again, you C-rockers are either completely ignorant of scripture, or na´ve, or lying or totally lack any common sense if you really believe this is just innocent fun!

What about the children at this concert? Kathy and I both saw different reactions from the small children. Some were mimicking the adults, others were in a stupor sitting quietly as the music droned on and on. We even had one boy pass in front of us saying to a friend, "Now all I have to do is get my hearing back." - That was only halfway through the concert! We were saddened more by watching these young kids than anything else. What must be going through the heads of these children?!

Couldn't tell ya. But I can begin to imagine what I would be thinking, were I a younger lad experiencing a DC Talk concert for the first time...

Wow! This music really kicks! Geeze, most other shows like this are filled with cursing and sexual connotations! And look, everyone around me is dancing and singing along, having a great time while they are sober and not even drunk! Some even have their hands raised in praise to the Lord! I think I can get into this scene... who even needs any of that secular stuff. What will people think when they hear that I'm a   Jesus Freak...

To put it very kindly, "You really missed the boat here!!!" If you really believe this you are blind to the truth. AND HOW HEARTLESS YOU ARE IF YOU DO!!!  I SAW THOSE KIDS AND THEY WERE NOT HAPPY, THEY WERE SCARED!!! HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SCARED CHILD?!  WHEN I PUT MYSELF IN THE CHILD'S SHOES ONLY "RUNNING" COMES TO MIND. I HAVE NO DOUBT THEIR EARS HURT TOO!!!  I WOULD HAVE BEEN AS TERRIFIED AND FROZEN AS THOSE SMALL CHILDREN PRESENT!!!  IT'S SATAN'S WORK TO DESTROY OUR CHILDREN!!! AND C-ROCK MAKES NO SECRET THAT'S WHO THEY ARE OUT TO REACH!!! THE YOUTH!
THE BIBLE TEACHES:

Matthew 18:6 - 7
"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!"

Your statements testify against you Mr. C-rocker! I am certain you won't agree but as you are saying to the effect that we are opposing God by opposing C-rock you had better take a closer look at what you are promoting!!!

Sadly, even the promoters for the band echo the same sediment one of our local Christian radio stations did, these are the "thing to do" with kids at concerts. Has God changed, or have we? A local response to a letter to the editor of our newspaper concerning these activities that would occur, compared Christian Rock to David dancing in the Temple. So, are we now going to start charging $18.50 a seat to worship?

I'm sure that you will agree that the quality of DC Talk's stage presentation easily rivals, if not surpasses, those of their secular counterparts. You get what you pay for. I have no problem paying money for a ticket. And you my friend, shouldn't complain, having not paid a single cent for them.

Again, I refer to the first paragraph that apparently you skipped by. The gospel should not be charged for, God's truth is supposed to be free.  Plus this group among the rest makes merchandise of those who come, as they heavily push the t-shirts, trinkets, coins and other miscellaneous garbage. 2 Peter 2:3 "And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not." (Bold emphasis mine showing how these people are using others for gain in an unBiblical way.) 

The verses in the Bible are numerous which speak against these activities, even though the promoters have argued, "it is well orchestrated and safety is a priority," this does not change the fact that the behavior is not Christian. I have spent over a week thinking of how to convey the danger and deception of the music and behavior. It comes down to what does the Bible say? What are the standards for Christian music set forth in the Bible? Do musical forms reflect beliefs? Where is the line? Where does the Christian set their standards? We must agree on Christian behavior, do you participate in these things?

These are good questions. I would disagree though with your statement that we 'must agree' on Christian behavior. Is having a drink Christian? Or is it a sin? I myself never drink, on the other hand I would not condemn a fellow believer for doing so, as this is a non-essential item that people have different convictions about. Do I love Christian music, and rock out to it? Heck yes! But am I going to condemn others for loving hymns and such? No.

Better think longer than a week on these things.

You are wrong, we MUST agree on what Christian behavior is and its the Bible that sets the standards. The behavior and the rock music are intertwined inseparably. If you do not believe the Bible, than standards are whatever you want to make them you are attempting to detract from the points. 

I was saved out of the rock scene. Why would I want to enslave myself to this worldly lifestyle again?

Praise God. But like I've said before, if such music causes you to stumble, then yes, stay away from it. But do not condemn others for it.

You have stumbled but you are blind to it. Now you condone and praise those that cause others to stumble this is what c-rock does to the young Christian as it confuses and misleads our youth into thinking they can live and behave like the world. The condemnation comes not from us but from the Bible who do such things.

While speaking with Sarah Leslie, Editor of the Christian Conscience, she pointed out that

"The use of the term "freak", according to its original meaning, has now been turned completely around. Those who were hippie counter-culture "freaks" were radically saved. When we were called "Jesus Freaks" in the '70's, it was a reference to our past life, but also implied being willing to live for Jesus in a holy, sober and righteous manner that ran completely contrary to the popular hippie culture --- in other words becoming a new type of "freak".

DC Talk has twisted the term completely around to mean Christians mimicking the popular culture willing to act wildly, moshing, head-banging, etc. (like "freaks") to spread the Gospel."

I have to ask why would we ever use such a word as "freak" to describe our fervor for Jesus Christ?

You already went over that. What is a 'freak?' An ardent follower. Therefore a Jesus Freak is an ardent follower of Christ!

Your spin on it. Those like Sarah see DC Talk's play on the old term "Jesus Freak" as DC Talk tries to REDEFINE it! Our article reveals the truth! The primary connotation for "freak" is NOT for the Christian, except for someone who WAS a freak and is now gloriously saved.

Why do we need to "dress down" as these band members do? Do we need to do this to be accepted? Do we have to cross-dress to reach cross-dressers?

This is frankly a very poor analogy.

Because you don't like it, doesn't make it poor. Again it is very clearly the truth as the band imitates the world's "grunge" look right along with the crowd! -The fad demonstrates their "role model"  loyalty to the secular rock group Nirvana! A blatantly anti-Christian group! In this case the comparison does not detract from the point but exemplifies it, it is the same logic reaching to a fringe group.

The Rock and Roll culture is a subculture, on the fringe of our society. Is this kind of music Christian? No, I do not believe it is.

I see. Now you are venturing into totally different territory. Again, if rock music causes you to stumble, then by all means stay away from it, at least for a season. But this does not justify your condemning it. If I were you, I would check out my Christian rock apologetic pages before I even went there.

You have rationalized more scriptures than I care to count on your c-rock defense page. You come across as someone who doesn't care who they hurt, as you defend every c-rocker I've ever heard of and some I have not! Its the Bible that judges the behavior of these groups, so if you have a problem you are talking to the wrong person, I am only saying what the Bible teaches.

Are the band members Christians? Perhaps, it is hard to tell if you go by the music and the words, only God knows the heart.

It is hard to tell if you go by the words? Dude, please take a look at a lyric sheet from any of their albums. Every song they have ever put out has an explicit Christian message. If you are going to post pages condemning DC Talk's music, and questioning their Christianity, you owe it to them to at least take a look at the lyric sheet from any of their albums!

Again you made a bad assumption and I did read one.  I again refer the reader to the song critiqued above "Jesus Freak." One album was enough, no need to waste my time with more. THERE IS NO GOSPEL OR CLEAR CHRISTIAN MESSAGE IN DC TALK'S LYRICS. I still have nothing but questions about the faith of ANYONE who promotes the kind of behavior we witnessed. Because the Bible teaches us to judge by the fruit people bear and we have only witnessed BAD FRUIT in relation to c-rock.

At best this was a Rock n' Roll concert performed by some misled Christians. Parents beware!

"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." (James 4:4)

Footnotes: (1) Article in Rapid City Journal May 10, 1996 "Musical Missionaries" (2) Article in Rapid City Journal May 18, 1996 "DC Talk, Audio Adrenaline played spirited rock n' roll

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord." (Colossians 3:15-16; also refer to Ephesians 5:19)

Of the dozens of Christian rock artists I know and love, DC Talk is one of the ones that impress me the most. Not only is the music excellent, but the lyrics uncompromising, despite surely incredible temptation to record otherwise. I have also had the opportunity to meet them on certain occasions including the Jesus Freak release party, and by all indications they are not only great and talented guys but they are who they say they are, pursuers of Christ. It saddens and frustrates me to see these brothers slammed on the Internet, thus this response. I look forward to yours.

Of what Jesus Christ do c-rockers like DC Talk preach? There is no indication in their promotion, in their concert or in any part of their music with only very vague exceptions. Is the gospel hidden? Or is to be preached openly? DC Talk not only compromises but "slams" the Christ they claim to love with their behavior.

Or so I thought... here's what he had to say (with my responses):


Further debate and end of discussion:

After looking at your site I can see it would be a complete waste of time discussing this with you.

Well my friend, if you don't even read any of DC Talk's lyric sheets, and from what I can tell didn't even read my response, I guess you're right.

For your information I read the lyrics before writing the article. I found them on internet after the concert because you could hardly make out a word that was said as their music drowned them out!

If you are really serious about following Jesus Christ YOU need to quit rationalizing behaviors to make them fit as "Christian." The behavior and music at these concerts was hatched in hell not the Bible.

As for you telling me what I need to do, I can say that you need to quit irrationalizing these behaviors and calling then non-christian. As for the music being "hatched in hell"??? Please.

One look at the children's faces was enough for me! But my article also covered the scriptures regarding riotous behavior you have just chosen to disregard it.

Here are a few more web pages which you may have looked at already which go more in depth and cover some of those horrendous groups that you say: "For the most part, if it's good, and it's explicitly Christian, I like it. Here are some bands that fit those bills and have web sites worth checking out, as well as some festival and other info below." and a few you say are: Bride, Mortification, Newsboys, Petra, Tourniquet ! and ones I have more on some I've never heard of.

Those 5 bands are totally sold out for the Lord, their lyrics are totally explcitly Christian, and their musicianship is awesome. I have had the opportunity to meet the members of the first 4 as well, and from all indications their lifestyles are ones that are glorifying to the Lord. How dare you call them 'horrendous.' Now Newsboys, I've actually never seen a slam on them, are they your next target?

Your definition "explcitly Christian" I cannot agree with at all.  How dare I not call them horrendous!? Their so-called Christian music is to say the least bizarre! You support and or defend a group of c-rockers beyond those you list above, some I didn't even know they were considered c-rockers! Here's the list from your site for my readers here:

"All Star United, Audio Adrenaline, Carman, Christafari, Code of Ethics, -Another moshing bunch I've heard of, Five Iron Frenzy, Hokus Pick, Jars of Clay, JLM- local boys with a great live show, Geoff Moore & the Distance, Guardian, The Insyderz, The Kry, Michael W. Smith, Miss Angie, Point of Grace, Reality Check, Rebecca St. James, REO Speedwagon, Supertones, Third Day, World Wide Message Tribe, and many more Mr. C-rocker lists songs for: One Bad Pig, Whitecross, Bloodgood, Plankeye" and more c-rockers that I've never heard of!

Here are the websites I am talking about:

http://rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/rockm/satanic.htm Christian" Rock Music Christian or Satanic?

http://www.av1611.org/crock.html Christian Rock - Blessing or Blasphemy? - by Terry Watkins

Dude, both of these have been dealt with on short order, you should have seen links to my responses on the page I gave you. Those were, frankly, full of lies and gave way to much credit to the devil. I e-mailed responses to those folks and have never heard back from any of them. Your slam on DC Talk was more civil, I'll give you that, but it as well contains falsehoods that need to be corrected.

Your ideas of what are lies are nothing more than your opinion and do not stand up to the test of the Biblical truth! Aside from DC Talk that I saw in person, I have seen video of other things Watkins has revealed on his page. Kind of hard to deny both the eye witness account, quotes AND the video!!!

http://www.biblebelievers.net/ChristianRock/kjcrockm.htm 

I hadn't seen that one before but will check it out, thanks... Thanks also for the response. God bless, ....

I cannot even say "God bless you" because your words have given me great reasons to doubt your faith in the God of the Bible. Your insistence on defending c-rock at all costs (even at the cost of our children) is one of the greatest reasons.

Matthew 7:16 - 20
"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

Galatians 5:21 - 24
"Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

You cannot even pretend that the fruits of the Spirit are evident in DC Talk concerts or any other c-rock concerts!!!

2 Peter 2:18
18 For when they speak great swelling [words] of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, [through much] wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

This verse pretty well sums up what we witnessed, shameless and outrageous behavior!


I can see why my friends gave you no response. For the record I did read the lyrics of the DC Talk "Jesus Freak" album very closely --- utter nonsense. What you deem as falsehoods I have either quoted from other secular material "positive" towards the band or I heard for myself first-hand.

How dare you call this garbage Christian!

Goodbye, John

This goes to show I did tell you I read the lyrics, yet the page this is in answer to is supposed to show how I did not!


At this point I'll just chalk it up and post it to my site. The reason I figured he must not have read the lyric sheet is because he said "Are the band members Christians? Perhaps, it is hard to tell if you go by the music and the words..." If he says it is "utter nonsense," not to mention "garbage," I guess that is his loss. As for his friends giving me no response, all I can venture to say is while his friends presented blatant lies, I confronted them with correction in the form of truth. I believe that all parties involved here will be praising God together for eternity, and we will know who is right then.

Here your true colors come through as you call liars numerous Christians who have exposed the lies of c-rock to the Word of God. --Thereby maligning/slandering their character!

Like I've said before, I don't have anything personal against these folks. I've even checked out articles on other topics on their sites and found some compelling truthful material. But I can not let this slam against these brothers go uncorrected or uncontested, despite my personal requests that they change it. That is the reason for these responses. You can e-mail me at (address removed), or check out my music page which has links to my other pages in defense of Christian rock. Here is Mr. Beardsley's info left intact as on the original page. If you respond to him, I suggest you do it with caution. God bless.

Here I too am accused of slamming.  The c-rocker I am responding to worked together with another c-rocker to try and convince me of my error. I in turn have tried to convince them that they are wrong, not because I say they are wrong but that God does through His holy words found in the Bible, 100% true and sufficient for all our needs.

2 Timothy 2:15 -16
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness."

The utterances of c-rock are vain babblings at best and blasphemous or heretical --- and this is being kind for the condemnation deserved by much of this so-called "Christian" rock!  Here's a short study that gives a little more on why NOT to rock:

Look at the word "wantonness" in scripture, perhaps you could say more on the word but the good'ol Strong's says plenty: Not only unbridled lust, excess, licentiousness, lasciviousness BUT also "outrageousness, shamelessness, insolence" Sums up the fruit of both CCM and C-rock!

766 aselgeia {as-elg'-i-a}

from a compound of 1 (as a negative particle) and a presumed selges (of uncertain derivation, but apparently meaning
continent); TDNT - 1:490,83; n f

AV - lasciviousness 6, wantonness 2, filthy 1; 9

1) unbridled lust, excess, licentiousness, lasciviousness, wantonness, outrageousness, shamelessness, insolence

Same word definition here to:
Romans 13:13
"Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying."

Also look at:
"and such like" - From Gal 5:21
Tie this to verses like Ro. 12:1-2 and one will get the point. Not to mention where is the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22-24) at these concerts --they are not there!

Galatians 5:21-24
"21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

Then merely examine the bad fruit revealed at the concerts!

Christian rockers are clearly "cozying-up" to the world and its way opposite of Romans 12:1-2 and other verses.  The fast growth of Christian rock should sound the alarm bells for parents, pastors and peachers who are seeking to follow scriptures!  We need to beware of the arguments presented by the likes of this c-rocker as they attempt (maybe unintentionally) to undermine parental authority introducing the seductive heresy of "Christian Rock."

2 Corinthians 10:3-6
"3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
"



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